Aug. 25, 2022

91: Mentor Michael Sartain of Men of Action

91: Mentor Michael Sartain of Men of Action

The boys from 3CT are joined by professional mentor, Michael Sartain of Men of Action , for an extended episode covering many interesting and humorous topics. 

Michael discusses everything from growing up in Dallas, Texas, his employment as a strip club DJ, serving as a United States Air Force flight officer, and the success of his mentoring business.  He also takes us on a deep-dive into human psychology,  provides us with some feedback on how to effectively utilize social media to reach a target audience. and closes with some questions about topics related to policing.


Speaker 1 (00:00:04):

Hey everybody. Welcome back to another episode of three cops talk. This is Sean. One of your hosts and I'm here with the Polish fog Uhhuh yet again he is joining us via a brand new microphone about it looks at it, Chris it's

Speaker 2 (00:00:20):

No, I got one of those things, cuz you kept telling me my P P P P

Speaker 1 (00:00:23):

Whatever was Polish. And

Speaker 2 (00:00:27):

I thought it was just a panty hose over. I thought it was, my head was too big, but apparently my speech.

Speaker 1 (00:00:32):

And then you heard the thrifty Norwegian he's us yet again, is this guy

Speaker 2 (00:00:38):

Shekel Scott, that's his new thing. Two shekel Scott.

Speaker 1 (00:00:41):

The three of us can get together. Like I wish I could start learning some like Norwegian curse words to Jeff saying like other than UTA and things like that. <Laugh> but before we get on the show, everybody's making fun of my really gray beard you know, like, so, so,

Speaker 2 (00:00:56):

So we're gonna announce our guests here in a minute. It's Majesta. Anybody's gonna watch a video. Like you gotta watch like this video because you got one guy, like you look at him like, God damn, that's a beard. You look at, you look at Shawn like, man, bro, you need some of that, you know, dye stuff or whatever

Speaker 1 (00:01:09):


Speaker 2 (00:01:10):

Just for men. Yeah, yeah. Just, yeah. That's what it's just for men. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (00:01:13):

What was kind of cool is that I went to a real barber like today. Like you don't, they're not like real barbers used to be around all over the place. And then real barbers went away.

Speaker 2 (00:01:21):

You mean a salon or an actual,

Speaker 1 (00:01:23):

An actual barber shop. Really? You go in there and they have like, you know, like they had seven barbers run in and a place was, it was great. I, I really enjoyed it. And maybe someday day I can get this place to be a sponsor. Cause it was so cool. Really pro military, you know, they even had some law enforcement stuff hanging up in there. But when I sat down to get my haircut letters, like I really like your beard. I was like, what? She just, she opened with that on me. I was like, oh really? Wow, cool. And then I get on here and I get disabuse is what it is. It's

Speaker 2 (00:01:49):

Like strangers, but she was 104,

Speaker 1 (00:01:52):

But she look, she knew what she was doing.

Speaker 2 (00:01:54):

She Centra silver.

Speaker 1 (00:01:56):

And it's the first time I've ever gotten

Speaker 2 (00:01:58):

A beard, a compliment,

Speaker 1 (00:02:00):

A compliment and a beard.

Speaker 1 (00:02:03):

And one thing I learned about getting your beard trimmed is like, you're supposed to give your mouth shut. She goes like do this thing. Like, so you roll your lips back in so she can get to the hair that's above your lips. So you don't gas, you open with it. I'm like, oh, it's cool. I never had this before. And my mouth's open and all the hair falls in my mouth. I'm like, oh, that's part of the thing I didn't quite realize happens right now. And it's great. I'm like, should I color? She's like, no, no, no. It looks way, way better. And I was like, ah, alright, that's kind of nice. And like I said, then I get here and I listen to, this is bullshit from you too.

Speaker 2 (00:02:32):

No that gray looks good. No I, no, you, it looks good. Looks good on you

Speaker 1 (00:02:37):

Anyway. Yeah. But it was, it was neat to go and be amongst the people again and have somebody compliment me and not be locked in a room, talking into a microphone with guys, whatever. Anyway.

Speaker 2 (00:02:48):


Speaker 1 (00:02:49):

So what are you tubing up to lately? Nothing. Anything, whatever. Getting, not getting your haircut, not getting your

Speaker 2 (00:02:54):

Beer. I'm just getting my, just getting my training done, getting back, you know, getting ready to go to schools. That's about it, man. Just

Speaker 1 (00:02:59):

Friends, you guys, cuz you're so much younger than me. I, you know, you should check your underpants every now and then to make sure there's hairs coming in down there too.

Speaker 3 (00:03:06):


Speaker 1 (00:03:07):

Chimps is what you are. But you know, one of the things we are dealing with as a profession right now is the ability to influence people and kind of convince them, you know, in a positive light that is at least. And we've been talking a lot about like where can we go to places where we can traditionally find people that are a positive influence in a lot of ways. And the police world has always been reluctant to go outside the police world. I'm a big fan of looking internally first to address things. But we have clearly reached an era where we definitely need more influence, particularly in the PR side of the house. Like if we could do a better job of better, you know, like convincing people of why we do what we do is keeping as opposed to keeping things clandestined and secretive. And if we say this, it's gonna offend them. If we say this wrong, it's gonna seem this. And then, you know, we become very cloistered and it is raised through generation after generation chiefs of police don't come from the business world. They come from the police world. And if you were raised in that environment, correct me, if I'm wrong guys, that's kind of what you adopt and adapt to. Oh yeah. Cultural shift in law enforcement. Cause when you

Speaker 2 (00:04:13):

Just like, you know that being in the military and we're all cops and stuff, they know they, they just don't like change.

Speaker 1 (00:04:19):

Well, I mean, I honestly, I haven't done them both. I mean, and I didn't do it as much as some other people have. The military's pretty effective with change. I mean, you move a lot, you have to go to different theaters, you have to take different stations. At a certain point you're taking different rank way, way more adaptable to change. Like we moved and we're like, oh man, moving sucks. Right. And my college is a military college and we were moving, you know, off campus. And I like this moving sucks. I go, you can't ask, you can't talk to anybody else on this block about how moving sucks, everybody on this, block's a Colonel or a, you know, you know, general at the industry. They're gonna laugh at you go, you moved once in 20 years. Oh my God. That's, that's rough. You know what I mean? Like, well, it seems like

Speaker 3 (00:05:00):

In the, got it world though. Yeah. In the police world, someone comes up with an idea a lot of times and it's like, okay, well it's maybe it's something different, but then if it doesn't work there, there never seems to be anything like, well, Hey, why didn't that work now? Let's just come up with something else, you know? Right. I just feel like there's a lot of, or you gotta C with that sometimes, right? Yeah. I mean I mean some of the more effective leaders that I've seen in the police world have been the people who they make a decision, they execute it, they take the feedback from it, from the people who are the end users of it. And they either, you know, adapt it or modify it that I, that I feel like has been some of the best change we've seen in our, in our career path.

Speaker 2 (00:05:41):

Yeah. And I think what happens is that's why, you know guest here in a second, I think that's why one of the reasons that, you know, we were talking about, you know, having influencers and stuff like that, like they have to take risks and they have to like, see what what's working and what doesn't work. And they have to, to, I mean, to me, looking from the outside in, they have to pivot and they have to stay, they have to stay current and a lot of stuff. And I just don't think from the police world, you know, it just takes a lot of time to I was never in the military, but it just seems like in the police world, it just takes a long time. And just like now, you know, we're trying to build this bridge between the community and civilians and, and, you know, show what you, what, you know, what each other does to, to, to, to get along. And it just seems like when you try and do that stuff, it's like, you know, they gotta form a committee. I'm like, well, can't we just get people together and talk like, can't we just say, Hey, let's put up a poster and say, Hey, let's get together. And chit chat about what you don't like, we could explain, we could explain what we expect and just can, can we just can't talk, but they gotta put a committee together, whatever. So, I mean, I think that's just, that's my perspective on it.

Speaker 1 (00:06:43):

So you're not a fan of the bureaucracy, Chris, is that what you're saying?

Speaker 2 (00:06:45):

No, no. I kinda

Speaker 1 (00:06:46):

Like bureaucracy associated with it as a businessman. You can't possibly, I never experienced bureaucracy bureaucracy on a day level. We, yeah, we, we we'd be considered mid-level bureaucrats in the big police state that we exist in. So that being said,

Speaker 2 (00:07:01):

So we had introduced our guests and I always screw up his last name. Michael Sartain.

New Speaker (00:07:06):

It's Sartain

Speaker 2 (00:07:09):

SARTA. I don't, I always say Sarah satin and I don't know why it's got the little, little that's your cholesterol medicine that's right,

Speaker 1 (00:07:16):

Right, right.

Speaker 2 (00:07:17):

So anyway, so Michael Mike, Michael, I welcome. Welcome. Welcome. Thank you so much. You're taking your time and I know you're super busy and I know you got, you know, you got a lot of things going on, you know, personally and in your business and stuff. And I just wanted to thank the time, you know, that you took to come here. So basically what, what, what we, we brought you on here for us. We wanted to talk to some influencers and, and kind of get their feel on stuff and what it takes and, and how you did it and what you did, and then kind kind of towards the end of the show, kind of get your perspective on what you feel out of our influencers can do, because let's just face it. I don't everybody watching 'em whether you're, you know, whether you're five years old or seven years old, or 10 years old, or, you know, we got people here that are, you know, about 60, 65, they're always on TikTok and they're always on Instagram and stuff like that. And, and unfortunately my, my feeling is that that's where a lot of, of feelings and a lot of misinformation may get out. We not the whole story towards them. Wanna kind of talk about like what we can do, you know, from social media standpoint to kind of like, maybe get out some better information. So anyway, so your, your story, your history, I could never do it any justice. So I'm just gonna lead it up to you, Mike, to give us your history, your story, and how you got to where you're

Michael Sartain (00:08:28):

At. Man. This is always scary every time people ask me for my like bio, because it's like, it's, I, I can't even explain. I always forget things, right. So I went to high school at UT or I'm sorry, went to high school in Dallas, Texas. You know, it was, it was a really interesting experience where I grew up on the north side of the tracks and went to high school on the south side of tracks. So I went to a really, really bad high school. There were a lot of police officers there. We were the first high school with metal detectors. There were frequent shootings. I used to work. I was a lifeguard in south Dallas. If you guys have ever been to south Dallas, it's not a back then. It's, it's getting better now, but it was not a super fun place to live during the crack epidemic in the early nineties.

Michael Sartain (00:09:05):

Right. And I, and I and I would sit there sit there with police officers often, and I would ask them frequently about their job. I would go for ride alongs when I was like maybe 16, 17 years old. And it was just something like, for me, I got to see growing up, like both sides, how both sides lived, cuz I lived in Lakewood, which is a nice area of Dallas, but I went to high school at lake probably amongst one of the worst public school districts in the, in the country was D I S D really all really. So, so, so now, so now we, in a situation where I finished really high up in my class, but I didn't really get that good grades. I went to UT Austin. I studied business and then I had a minor in astronomy.

Michael Sartain (00:09:40):

And then from there I left and couldn't find a job because MCI WorldCom and Enron went out of business around the same time. And so I I'm getting an it degree from one of the best business schools in the country, but you know, there's no, there's no jobs. So as a joke I used to be, I used to manage a a bar or like I was the door guy at a bar and I was the DJ there and one of the waitresses, she goes, Hey you know, we need a DJ at our strip club. And I was like, come on, this is a joke, whatever, I, but I needed a job. And I was like, all right, I'll go into the strip club during the daytime Sunday day,

Speaker 1 (00:10:07):

I guess, I guess.

Michael Sartain (00:10:10):

So I go, I go in there Sunday, daytime and and it was you know, listen,

Speaker 1 (00:10:14):

It was Chippendales <laugh>

Michael Sartain (00:10:17):

Okay. A whole nother story,

Speaker 1 (00:10:18):

Man. I'm kidding. I'm let

Michael Sartain (00:10:21):

Keep that thought, keep that thought. Real

Speaker 1 (00:10:23):


Michael Sartain (00:10:24):

So, so I go with Sunday, daytime, right? And for those of you, I don't mean to disparage anyone, but like the girls are not as pretty on Sunday, daytime as they're on Friday night. And so it's not, it wasn't like a dream come true. Right. I'm sitting there working a strip club during Sunday daytime and and I didn't think they'd give me the job and I got it. And so I ended up speaking on the microphone for, for eight hours a day, for four years. And so a lot of the, the stuff that I do now with the podcast and, and my coaching program, a lot of it came from those four years. I know it sounds insane. But the four years of me being a DJ at a strip club, like was invaluable to me. Right, right. Because the other thing is like the other thing that was crazy about it is that I'm also like the offensive coordinator for the strip club. Right. I gotta figure out like which girls to go on where or whatever. <Laugh> right. I'm a former high school.

Speaker 1 (00:11:05):


Michael Sartain (00:11:07):

I'm, I'm a former high school football player.

Speaker 1 (00:11:08):


Michael Sartain (00:11:09):

Right. And I'm trying, and I have to. And so, so here it, it becomes this really crazy situation. I have a bunch of extremely unaccountable women that are in the locker room who are like bickering and fighting and I have to like lead them so that we actually get them on stage on a regular basis. And I'm on the microphone for eight hours. It's funny how, when I think about it now, how that ended up like working in my favor. Yeah. So what I, I knew this was, was what I wanted to do. I watch nine 11 happen literally while I was at the strip club. I, I go into work early and and, and so I'm seeing it, you know, I'm seeing the replay, obviously it wasn't live because it would've been 9:00 AM. There would've been 6:00 AM my time. And, and at first I'm just in kind of in disbelief and I knew a, B 52 previously, cause I was, I, you know, I was a military buff. I knew a, B 52 had previously flown into the empire state building. So I thought maybe this was something similar where there was just some sort of aeronautical accident. Then the second one hits. Right. And then at that point I'm like, oh wow. Like I, like, I can't even contemplate what's going on. Right. Mm-hmm <affirmative> when the towers come down and then I have two frat brothers, I two, I was in a Christian fraternity in college, which is funny. I end up working a strip club. So, so great

Speaker 1 (00:12:10):

Place for union mission work. It was mission work for you. You've very mission. Michael.

Michael Sartain (00:12:16):

One of my frat brothers, he he ends up flying heavies for the Navy. And then the other one of my, the other, one of my frat brothers, he ends up being an E a six B navigator for the Marine Corps. And so they both became flyers. So I ended up going to the air force and then I tell 'em I wanna be an Intel officer. I didn't wanna fly. I didn't particularly enjoy flying. And they made me a flyer because I, I scored really well in the pilot navs section. So I ended up joining I go in there and it was just a situation where I like, you know, I wanted to serve my country. I knew I wasn't. If you were a DJ at a strip club, that's a job. You just keep for 30 years. I, if you ever guys ever go to the strip club, go to one in Texas or Georgia and go back there and look at the Friday night guy, he's probably five, nine waste, 245 pounds put three girl three is his grandkids through college. You know what I'm saying?

Speaker 1 (00:12:57):

He's, he's

Michael Sartain (00:12:58):

Been, he's been there for 35

Speaker 1 (00:13:00):

Years. He's got a pension. Yeah.

Michael Sartain (00:13:02):

I mean, and I was just like, I don't wanna be that guy. Shout out to Tony Q at the men's club in San Antonio, Texas.

Speaker 1 (00:13:07):

I was there 30 years, not a sponsor by the way not.

Michael Sartain (00:13:13):

And I was like, no, I don't want, I don't want that life. So I joined the military and when I did, you know, I, I studied astrophysics. You know, I had a business degree and I, I joined the military and it was one of these situations where the math made sense. So I was a navigator. I, I, they wanted me to apply to be a pilot. I had no interest in being in the military for 11 years to be a pilot. Seven years was long enough for me. And so I ended up joining. And then when we have all the, the choices for the airplanes that we wanna fly, everyone's like, oh, I want B 52 S or F 15 S or I want B twos. And I'm like, no, which, which one has the longest runway and a bathroom inside. And they were like, KC,

Speaker 1 (00:13:42):

1 35. <Laugh> right. There you go. Right. I

Michael Sartain (00:13:45):

Was like, so, so

Michael Sartain (00:13:47):

Yeah, air fueler. And the thing is for being a navigator and a KC, 1 35 actually is the hardest job out of all of them, because I'm the one I'm responsible for my air refueling and yours. Right. I have to do your timing because a lot of other aircraft don't have navigators. I have to do your timing. And I have to do my timing. I have to do your fuel calculations. And I have to do mine in the air going 600 miles an hour. So that's why I liked the job. It was a lot of really quick math. It was very enjoyable. You know, we could only land on 10,000 feet of runway and we always had a bathroom. You know, there's a bathroom in the aircraft. In fact, you could go in the back and, and took a, take a football. The cargo hold was so big. We could sit there and throw a football at me and the crew chief or the crew chief, the boom operator would like throw a football in the back, like while we were flying sometimes. So it was a good, it was a good time. I loved it

Speaker 1 (00:14:28):


Michael Sartain (00:14:29):

Our listeners sleep.

Speaker 1 (00:14:30):

Yeah. Really quick, just to the boom is the thing that refuels the other plane. So that comes out and you gotta marry the mail end. The end goes into end. And that,

Michael Sartain (00:14:40):

Which, which is the opposite for the, which is the opposite for the Navy. Cuz they use a drug. Let's give a little history lesson in 1957, the us government commissioned Boeing to make a Boeing 7 0 7 into what's it called a KC 1 35 Strato tanker. It had one job which is to refuel B 52 S on nuclear missions to go new Moscow. That was the only job that it had. There you go. And it ended up being the situation where they were just gonna use it and then throw it away. Well, the aircraft was so robust, just like the B 52 Boeing used to make the best aircraft in the world without a doubt back then. So the B 52 was made in the early fifties, the KC 1 35 and like the late fifties. And, and so these aircraft were so robust. They're still, we're still flying guys. Just so for people don't know, we're not flying new KC, one 30 fives, the KC one 30 fives that are flying now were built in 1957. My, my, my seatbelt was from the Korean war. My fan was, it was from Vietnam. I'm not kidding. The avionics were all new.

Speaker 1 (00:15:33):

Let's go to that great beard thing again. Okay. Exactly. Beard thing again,

Michael Sartain (00:15:37):

What I'm saying, it's funny. It was funny. So, so anyway, so, so, so the, the, the aircraft was made for one job to refuel B 52. Well, the entire air force aircraft inventory started using it. When I say refueling, we pull up a, in front of them, we pull up one mile ahead and 500 feet above where they are, and then they slow, slowly come up into pre-contact and then the boom operator flies the boom into the receptacle on top of the receiver for the Navy, it's the opposite. We actually put a drug out the back and the Navy pilot flies his probe into, into the drug and then receives gas. So we would do that for, for every, I, I have seen every aircraft up close you know, flying. It was a really, really cool gig cuz there's a big window out the back of the aircraft.

Michael Sartain (00:16:15):

And we could also do some stuff with search and rescue because we have like such a big window underneath the aircraft. And also because we, we were able to transport troops because we could hold probably 50, 60 troops at one time. And so we would, we would, we would ship troops back and forth to the to the AE sometimes. So you know, it was, it was, it was a really cool gig. I did that for a while. Once I became a senior captain, I stopped flying. You know, that's what generally what happens when you're a flyer? Once you become a major, you stop flying as much my Lieutenant Colonel maybe flew like once a month, if he was lucky mm-hmm <affirmative>. Yeah. And then and then I became a counterintelligence officer for like my last year in the military and then I got out and when I got out, I joined, I, I ended up moving to Las Vegas.

Michael Sartain (00:16:52):

This is the part you guys were asking me about. And when I moved to Las Vegas, I ended up randomly ended up I remember I'd been DJ at strip club for four years. Right. So I ended up coming to Vegas and this guy asked me one time. He was like, we're doing a fashion show at this one bar, would you like to come and be the MC? And I was the MC and I just made people laugh like the whole time. And so from that we went, I would emceed another event. And then another one, and then there was an I dunno, if guys ever, ever been to hard rock before it was the Virgin hotel used to be called Hardrock. Yeah. Rehab the pool. There had a bikini competition for about 70 grand and they needed a new recruiters and they needed a host.

Michael Sartain (00:17:26):

So they invited me to be the host. And then from that job, they ended up getting a job with max being the host of their parties. And from that job, I ended up getting a job with babes and Toyland. And then the second year when I was at rehab that I met crystal Hefner hug he's wife. So then I started working with Playboy. And then from there it just like grew to where I was a recruiter for all these different events. And I was the MC for all these, these events at the same time. And then the and then at the same time, I'm also working for a hedge fund. I'm a quantitative analyst at a hedge fund, which is funny. It's the same kind of math doing error, fueling math, which is pounds of gas per hour weight and balance of the aircraft direction, time, space, altitude, all these mathematical equations when it comes to trading, it's actually the same part of the brain, right?

Michael Sartain (00:18:08):

It's like bid ask spread right volume it's it actually is kind of similar the way, the way the whole thing works. So I got into trading probably around 2013. I ended up working for a fund probably in 2018 and I've been working for them for the last four years. And so I was doing that for a while. Then the pandemic hit and we were not making a lot of money. So then I started my own coaching program, which was a lot of the stuff that I learned when I was in the military and a lot of stuff I learned while I was hosting all these events and a lot of stuff I learned from running different businesses and a lot of stuff. And, but the, the thing that most people were asking me about were the girls, because I mean, you guys have seen on, on social media, there's just so many huge female influencers that are on my PO that are on my show that, or, or come on to my events, that's what people wanted to know about. So I started at a program a couple years ago about that called men of action. And it's pretty good, man. We're at we've got about 400 clients right now. And we're we're, you know, we're growing pretty strong. So that's, that's kind of the quick and dirty. I know I missed about 500 things in there, but that's pretty much,

Speaker 2 (00:19:01):

Pretty much what I've been doing. So, so plug right now for like, you know, the men of action type of thing. So since we're, we're this early in the show, so hopefully people won't drop off, but like, could people join? Could people,

Michael Sartain (00:19:11):

Yeah. Yeah. So you would, you would go to MOA mentoring. I mean, you could, you could pull it up if you wanted to on, on screen share, but like if you go to MOA, you can see it. The four main pillars for the first men of action course is social networking and then it's entrepreneurship. And then leadership leadership is the most important. I tell my, the guys who joined my course, a lot of 'em join because they wanted to just like have higher status and meet more women. And I'm like, you think that it's the social networking aspect of it. It's not the leadership portion, which is a lot of Jocko Willock. A lot of us mil USC, UC, not UCM J but the code of conduct, I will not lie to or steel NORRA. I tolerate anyone amongst us who does.

Michael Sartain (00:19:48):

And I tell 'em you know excellence service before self, or I'm sorry, integrity, first service before self and excellence. We all in all we do, which is what we say in the us air force. I tell, I make these guys say that also we under promise over deliver. It's always our fault, even when it's not our fault, those are the things that actually make you an attractive accountable, man. Those are the things that do it. It's not, it's not, it's not the fake paddock watch and the social media followers and all that stuff. Those are the things that you you're able to run a business and maintain relationships with people for 10 years when, when you can do those kind of things with your business. So that's what I teach my guys. The last the last module was called mindset, where we go into like, you know, an abundance mindset I make, 'em read the subtle art of not giving a fuck. There's 20, 20 books, 26 books that they have to read. Yeah, that's a great, that's a fantastic,

Speaker 1 (00:20:35):

That is a great, a great, no, that's a great listen. A great, like, that's a great book to listen to.

Michael Sartain (00:20:41):

Also then there's a second part called MOA advance. And there we go into Dr. David bus. Who's one of my guests. We go into evolutionary psychology about how about how the, the whole human race is basically their, their predilection all come from from evolution. And then we go into things like sociopathy, narcissism borderline personality disorder. We get really deep into that because like, we talk about people getting scammed. We get into we get into critical thinking. There's a, there's a bunch of different stuff. It, it is. It's, it's the what, what I'm trying to think of the best way I can say, it's what they want versus what they need. My course is sold very much as this networking, Hey, you wanna live this lavish lifestyle like Dan Sarian or, or Andrew Tate or whoever. And then once you take the course, it's very much like we need to build you up as a complete human being so that you can someday be worthy of these people that you wanna network with.

Michael Sartain (00:21:30):

And we there's no fake until you make it integrity and honesty. The only thing that matters, because you know, 10 years from now, you still wanna be able to sleep. You still wanna be able to lay your head down and not be killed. So that that's, that's basically what the course is. In a nutshell, it's about 900 hours long guys. I'm not, I'm not gonna lie to you. Wow. The actual course itself is about 56 hours along the first one, the second course is somewhere in the 60 hours or whatever, but with all the Q and a, and cause I do four group calls per week, it ends up being about 900 hours. And that doesn't include the podcast, which is also part of the course. So it's probably from every, from everyone I've talked to, it's the most comp I, I teach it like a master course. Like you're getting a master's degree. That's the way I teach the course, their actual modules. Each you have homework assignments, stuff like that. And we've never had a refund. I've had, I'm at 370 clients and I've never had a refund. I've had two guy, I've had two guys that were trying to steal the program, like record it and then sell it and then try to get a refund. But I've never actually had like a legitimate person ask for a refund. There you

Speaker 1 (00:22:24):

Go. Wow. And now you you're successful and people are trying to steal your stuff and sell.

Michael Sartain (00:22:28):

Yeah. Yeah. A lot of people today I I'm on my 14th fake account that I'm trying to get people to band, like people keep making fake accounts on my Instagram and I have to keep posting, please report this. I have a bunch of people that I asked to report my accounts because yeah. I mean it's, it's, it's gotten to the point where like you just get to a certain point and then all of a sudden it's like you, somebody, somebody keep my car the other day. It just, you get to a certain point. And then all of a sudden there's some people that just don't like what you're doing.

Speaker 2 (00:22:53):

Yeah. But see, here's the thing. So, I mean, and this is kind of like what we talked, we were talking about earlier when I was to, when I was talking to Scott and Sean, that you have this course and the course, you know, when you look at it, it's like, you know, to meet, to meet these people, to live like these, these big lavish, whatever these minor goals mm-hmm. But when I looked at it, I'm like, to me, it's just being a decent human being and reaching your goals,

Michael Sartain (00:23:19):

Chris, but you a decent human being, reaching their goals was what you and I learned when we were growing up. And we didn't have an iPhone when we were in elementary school. Right. It's the, that's the, that a fundamentally is the difference in why the course needs to exist is because this fundamental understanding that you and I had, like, again, I'm talking to three cops about, this was probably not the best example, but in Texas, when I was growing up, we would get into big fist fights in a bar. And guess what happened the next day? We'd go back to the same bar. No one would give a shit. You go get your credit card back. No one called the police. No one, no one pressed charges. And, and, and none of it was personal. And if you had a problem with somebody, you told them to their face, it was a, a very, very different time. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. And so now the, the, the very thought of anything like that happening, no, instead, now we look at machine gun, Kelly, Dr. You know, pink dresser you know, Takashi 69 snitching to the feds. And like, that's what, that's what masculinity looks like now. And so that's, it's very confusing for a lot of men, which is why a lot of times, this course I felt like this course was necessary.

Speaker 3 (00:24:18):

You go, you question. I know that's like, I mean, that's clean it up in post to take this survey.

Michael Sartain (00:24:24):

<Laugh> let's go three hours, man.

Speaker 3 (00:24:27):

Yeah. Yeah. Your, your course, I was looking at a lot of your stuff on all your social media and I saw those different things about, about your program. Do you, do you have any kinda like a screening process or do you like, are there people that maybe are coming for the wrong reason? Do you have to talk to them at the beginning and say, Hey, you know, maybe this thing isn't for you.

Michael Sartain (00:24:43):

Yeah. I, so, so there's a couple of problems that people have. Like, I don't specifically have a problem. If you want to use the course for dating, everyone's dating life will improve. If you take the course, I'm not gonna lie to you. I mean, it's just, it's pretty obvious that that happens, but it's not a dating course. And unfortunately, what happens is a lot of guys from the like really toxic, like red pill com not to, not that red pill all is toxic, but a lot of guys from that community are toxic and they try to creep in and they try to like, Hey, Michael, teach me how to throw these events so that I can use this as lead gen for women to have sex with. And I'm like, bro, that's not what I teach. That's not exactly what I teach. You know? So that comes to be a little bit problematic.

Michael Sartain (00:25:16):

The main ones that I have an issue with are the people who don't wanna work. So this is not a do it for you course, if this was a, there, there are DFY courses that you could buy. I would charge a hundred grand a person. If this was a D FY course, there's no way I'm gonna do this. Like you are going, I'm here and you're going to work your ass off. You need to look at me as your military training instructor or a sign post. You do not, I am not going to hold your hand through these different things and no one's gonna come save you. Right. Right. So that's the, that's one of the things the guys who don't wanna work, they generally don't do as well. Or they just want, they just want the quick answer. And then the other guys, like I said, anyone who has any sort of like nefarious understanding or any level of misogyny whatsoever, you are quickly removed from my course, the problem is like, this is, this is a part that a lot of people don't understand because there's so many influencers right now that talk about dating male influencers.

Michael Sartain (00:26:00):

And they say some very like misogynist things about women and they do it. And the guys get all riled up and like, yeah, let's go bias. His course, all this kind of stuff. And for me, I host swimsuit USA's world championship. I host the biggest bikini competition in the world, the Playboy summer search. I host the babes and Toyland charity event, which is for human trafficking and animal rescue. I there's no way if I was a misogynist person, I would ever get the ability to host these things or crystal Hefner would ever invite me to the Playboy Manion. And so I was explaining this to my sales team. We are never going in that direction. Not only because it's bad business, but because I love women. And so we're never going to, so any level of misogyny is quickly re removed from my program. That's one thing that that's really important to me. And I have female coaches. I have women that come on and they express, usually they're like fantastically, beautiful, like Instagram models or whatever. And they'll come on and they'll explain, Hey guys, when you do this, it's fucking creepy. Please stop doing this stuff like that. <Laugh>

Michael Sartain (00:26:51):

Like, stuff like that. And it's, it's really important,

Speaker 3 (00:26:53):

But you need that. I mean, that's a big part of it need to get their input on

Speaker 1 (00:26:56):

That. I mean, Josh right there. Exactly.

Michael Sartain (00:26:59):

I mean, it is, it is, go ahead.

Speaker 1 (00:27:01):

One question for you, you brought, you know, you were talking about the women and things like that. And guys that look at this, they go, well, what came first? Was it the business model or was it the women and you know, those pretty women, they got you in the game or did you get in the game? And they came later, like that kind of thing, like talk about that kind of stuff.

Michael Sartain (00:27:17):

Yeah. So it was, it was 14 years of me like studying self-help giving speeches and then hosting events for free. Especially the, anytime anyone wants me to host a charity event. I never, I never let them pay me or if they want to pay me, I tell 'em to just give them money to the charity. So that's generally how it works. There's a anti-bullying charity. I work for, they offer to pay me. I just tell 'em to give them money to the charity. So for the charity events, I don't take any money. The, the, the bikini competitions I do, just because it's, I have a staff that I have to pay in order to like in order to like, get stuff done for the beginning competitions. But you know, for the most part, no, it definitely wasn't the business model.

Michael Sartain (00:27:52):

First. I was doing this for 14, 12 years before I ever started turning this into any kind of financially incentivized thing whatsoever. So no, it was one of these situations where I moved to Vegas and I watched a bunch of men here treat women like cattle. And I was like, is there a way for me to have an incredible time, an incredible network, incredible social circle here without treating women like cattle. And I was like, what if I just like, started having a ton of female friends that would come to my events that would introduce me to other females that would get me into other events that would introduce me to other influential people. Dude, I know a ton of, I know several billionaires now, and it's always a female who introduces me, always. I have one female, a friend of mine toy.

Michael Sartain (00:28:34):

She's constantly introducing me to guys worth hundreds of millions of dollars that wanna like sponsor my events. And that's the reason why is like, what happens is these guys like, start thinking, well, I can't network with these women or I don't take them seriously. So I did this whole thing you know, from that standpoint where like what, you know, I also don't wanna be an asshole to women. I, I wanna be really respectful. So how can I do that? And still not get walked over. And one of the things that I found is that like, when I'm, when I go to a club with like a hundred girls, I never have that issue where girls are like trying to walk over all over me. I know it's like a, a long roundabout way to do it. But preselection is one of the things Dr. David bus and his book calls it the mate copying strategy, which is the idea that women are attracted to men who other women are attracted to. And it makes a lot of sense. So that was just something that I expressed to my clients. And so my clients, you know, got on board with it. And that's one of the things that I do to like, kind of help my clients as far as their networking is concerned.

Speaker 3 (00:29:23):

Because, I mean, I imagine you've probably like come across in, in this kinda work and put in this program together. You've probably come across guys with a ton of money who think that just because they have a, to of money. Yes. They can get whatever they want and do whatever they want. I'm sure.

Michael Sartain (00:29:36):

Right. Yeah. They, they, those guys generally don't make it too far in my course. Because the problem is like, we, we very much talk about entitlement and you don't deserve shit. And so like that doesn't work right as well. Right. That doesn't work, you know, was it was it Clint east would've said deserve, ain't got nothing to do with it. So, so it's like, you know, it's, it's one of these things where I, I I don't like that level of entitlement. They will get scolded in front of the rest of the class, cuz we are, my group calls are like 60, 70 guys. There's no, we, we don't do that. I, I consistently remind them just like, like things like, dude, there was no antibiotics before 1930, there was, there was like eight before 1850 half the world's population died before the age of five.

Michael Sartain (00:30:14):

Like, and then during the 19 century, 100 million people died of famine in China, like stuff like 60 million people died from the Spanish flu. And like 60% of the Earth's population was killed because of bubonic plague in the 15th century. Like I tell them things like that. And then like you think you have fucking problems. You don't have big problems. Those problems, your problems are not that big dude history. Not exactly right. So I have to explain to them like that it's like far more people died from influenza during world war I than did during actual combat and stuff like that. You know, I explained to them like, this is the world you live in. You think that the world's always been like this? No, you've had 300,000 years of homo safety and evolution in 10 and 10 years of Facebook. And you're confused. And you think that the Facebook is the way things always were, right?

Michael Sartain (00:30:53):

You have to consistently remind them no evolutionary psychology is the reason why you think you find attractive women attractive. Why you like sugar, salt, and fat. And why you, you tend to follow people with deep voices who seem like they know what they're fucking doing. That's the reason why is because of evolution. And so I mean, that's just, that's just some of the stuff that I, that, that I teach, but you know, it's it's for, for most part, it's like, I wanna leave these guys better than I found them. And I want to make them complete human beings. We do have a few females. There's 11 females in the course. And then we also, the other thing I wanna make absolutely sure is that like there, I do have two clients that are male homosexuals. I have one female lesbian client. There's no, we evolution is evolution.

Michael Sartain (00:31:32):

Like it's status is status of status. It doesn't make any difference what your, your your, your sexual preferences are. You know, but that's just one of the things that I wanna pre on. I'll give you a great example. This, a lot of people are blown away by this, right? When men cheat women ask, do you love him? Do you love her? Do you love her? Generally, this is from Dr. David bus. When men cheat, when women cheat men ask, did you fuck him? Right? These are generally the first question, right? Here's what's crazy. When lesbian women cheat, lesbian women ask, do you love her? When homosexual men cheat, homosexual men ask, did you fuck him? Men are men, women are women, right? It doesn't make any difference what your sexual preferences, right? Because evolution is the same. And it's one it's really fascinating study.

Michael Sartain (00:32:17):

When you, when you see that we, we are, we are generally all the same. We are generally all the, the, we are a lot of people. Don't like when I say this hairless murder apes, and we're, we're the, the function of human evolution. So when you, when you look at it like that, then all of a sudden you start to ask questions and I know I'm skipping ahead here. No, no, you're good. John Douglas, he wrote the book mind hunter about, he was the, one of the guys who formed the behavioral science unit. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> at the FBI in 1974 mm-hmm <affirmative>. And so one of the, one of the, one of the things that I study a lot, mainly because of Dr. David bus's book called the murderer next door that he wrote up, which was, and then also Dr. Martha Stout's book, which is called the sociopath next door.

Michael Sartain (00:32:52):

They, they start talking about where sociopaths come from and how violent sociopaths are born or whatever. You know, the I'm sure you guys have been taught the triad. What is the injuring animals, the pyromania, and some sort of like sexual trauma with their mother or something like that. Right. And that, that's why you end up with Ted Bundy and ed Kemper. And, and that's how you, those type of situations, it's not just sociopathy, it's sociopathy mixed with some level of trauma. And then you end up killing a bunch of people. And that's where that kind of stuff kind of happens. So the, one of the questions we like to ask in the course is why, where does, so where do sociopath and you as police officers have to deal with this frequently, because a vast majority, a incredibly high number of violent offenders, violent felons are sociopaths.

Michael Sartain (00:33:30):

Mm-Hmm, <affirmative> the, the, the, one of the questions you have to ask yourself, how does this happen? Or where does something like this fit in evolution? Why would there still be sociopaths after 300,000 years? And the answer is from an evolutionary standpoint, there had to be someone in my tribe who saw the other tribe and was willing to go in there and bash their heads in with a rock and not have nightmares about it. There was an evolutionary necessity for that level of cruelty in order for my, my tribe to survive in your tribe, to not survive. And the us military there's there's officers, generals in the military have made quotes about this is like, they look for individuals with that type of temperament to become snipers that do not see other people as humans. And like, they, they U there's useful individuals. So you, you ask these questions, why do these individuals exist?

Michael Sartain (00:34:14):

And then you see when they get malformed, do they get mistreated? And then you end up, you end up with like serial killers and stuff like that. It's a very interesting thing to understand, because one of the things we talk about on my podcast frequently, cuz my podcast is about evolutionary psychology. It's not so much about dating. One of the things we talk about frequently on the podcast is that the difference between a bad person and a psychopath, this is a huge, huge problem. Like for instance, a bad person cheats on her husband, a psychopath or a narcissist with cluster B personalities disorder shits in Johnny DE's bed. <Laugh> right.

Speaker 2 (00:34:46):

That's there's a big difference. We covered that show here. Did we did

Michael Sartain (00:34:50):

We did. That's a, there's a big difference between those two things. Do you understand what I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah. If you're dating, if you're dating a woman with borderline, if you're dating a woman who's insecure, she breaks up with you because she thinks you're cheating on here. If you're getting a woman with borderline personality disorder, she fucks your dad and your brother and your friends, right. To get back at you and you didn't even cheat on her. So like there there's, there's these big differences when we deal with neurological disorders. And it's one of the things that I really like try to, to pass along to a lot of my clients is like a lot of times you're dealing with somebody who's gaslighting you or narcissist or something like that. And it's really important to understand you, you guys, a police officer, I'm sure you have to deal with this constantly. You know, you deal with this type of situation.

Speaker 2 (00:35:27):

Well see, so here's the question. So the question is, is based on evolution and all this other stuff, what like what we're seeing now, all the, the, the attacks on policemen where people just don't care, like they're shooting cops, like sitting in their squad car in front of, in front of the thing and you know, and, and you see this and, and there's no remorse for it. Is that evolution or is that just bad people?

Michael Sartain (00:35:48):

No, this, this is, this is, this is a fun, like at the tip of the spear, the people who are, who are leading, some of these charges are in a lot of cases, narcissists, we're talking about the tip of the spear we're in, like there's also studies that show a great number of members of Congress in the Senate are also narciss like narcissistic personnel disorder, cluster be personnel disorder. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> a lot of the times it's like if I want justice, because a family member of mine I thought was, was, was killed unjustly. That's a normal reaction to have to then go out and then like use that as a victim mentality in order to get, to raise funding for my political party. Or now we're getting into a completely different thing where we're using victim mentality in order to, to to ch to change the narrative.

Michael Sartain (00:36:31):

The reality of the situation is like, well, let's go to a couple of things, right? The, the attack on police officer was, it was one of these things where it was just like, there was this let's start way back. 2007, the Facebook app is put on the iPhone. There's a great book about this called the coddling of the American mind by Jonathan height. What happens is that that group in 2007, they're in junior high. By the time they graduate from college, they have created what we call now, cancel culture. This is around 2014. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> these people do not want to hear opposing points of view, right? These are the people trying to cancel Joe Rogan. These are the people trying to cancel Dave Chappelle. They don't, they don't want to hear oppos. So if you go and you speak on their campus, like, let's just say you had off people from police officers association going to speak on a campus where there's a bunch of liberal people like at Berkeley or whatever.

Michael Sartain (00:37:18):

It's not that they would debate you. They would simply physically try to intimidate you from coming on the campus and speaking, does that make sense? Yeah. Cause this is what they're taught. They're not taught to engage in open debate because they, they're not taught in any way whatsoever to face people openly or to, to express themselves openly. It's never an engagement of ideas. It's always just like my way or the highway. I'm spoiled. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> and it just filled with hate you're with me so far. Yeah. You take this, you take this same group and of course, it's not all people who are doing this. Like it really, there were some people who were gen gen, you know, genuinely outraged by some police brutality that they saw. And I'd say the majority of people were in that, at that area. The problem that happened was that the people at the tip of the spear were not doing this for justice.

Michael Sartain (00:38:00):

They were literally doing this for, to raise money and for their own narcissistic behavior. And we found, and by the time we find out that black lives LA matter, the, the organization, not the movement, right. The organization was actually funneling money into their own pockets and stealing money. By the time that happens, we're two years past George Floyd. And we don't even go back and look at the repercussions of it. Okay. Right, right. So it's one of these situations where there were a bunch of people marching that had really good intentions and they were correct in their, in their feelings. And there, there needed to be changes. And at the same time, there was a group of people leading those individuals by the nose and they were doing so in a way that was O only self-serving. I agree with a lot, lot of the things that Kaepernick was trying to say, I don't believe that Colin Kaepernick is a genuine human being at all.

Michael Sartain (00:38:40):

Right. I think he completely was doing what he was doing for his, for, for him completely self-serving dude, that whole thing he did, where he was supposed to go to a tryout with an NFL team. And then he, he went 10 miles down. The road was one of the most deceitful self-serving things that I've. I was, I was with him until he did that. And then I realized, oh, oh, this is all just for your own benefit. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> okay. Now I understand. So that these are two different things that we have to deal with. I, I can be in favor of a movement and not in favor of the narcissist that run the movement. So it's, it's one of, it's one of those types of situations. It, and with the case of what you're talking about, it's a very reductive behavior. Like I said before, we're not gonna listen to other people's point of view.

Michael Sartain (00:39:17):

I'm right. And you're just you're wrong. So in this situation with police, it's like, it's very difficult for them to understand. No, we're talking about 1% of police or bad, or even if we're 5%, it's definitely not the majority of police officers. And then you end up in situations like I forgot that that individual who got shot seven times in the back. And I, I remember afterwards thinking like this is a poorly trained officer for several different reasons, firing on somebody with the kids in the car. But like guys, no offense to anyone, that guy wasn't a Marine, you wanna know high, know he wasn't a Marine cuz there ain't nobody I'm gonna shoot seven times and they're gonna get back up. It's like, to me, that was one of the craziest parts of that whole story. I was like, this guy got shot seven times at that range by a police officer guess who was not trained proficiently on his weapon.

Michael Sartain (00:39:58):

Right. Mm-hmm <affirmative> this is another part. Like we we're completely missing when it comes to this kind of stuff. Now, if he's not trained proficiently on his weapon, what else is he not trained proficiently on? And now we get into this situation, defund the police. Well, the problem is we need the, the most important thing is to be able to train, to deescalate these situations. That's why that's what these are for the us. Military is not there to deescalate situations. That's what diplomats are for, right. Right. When, when we call the us military in it's already too late, right. It's already too late. So now we have a situation here where police officers have to be mental health professionals. They have to deal with homeless. They have to deal with people who are violent. And then a lot of people who are not violent, they have to deal with people who are completely innocent while they surrounded by other people who aren't.

Michael Sartain (00:40:38):

And so you just, there's just all these mix of situations that make it extremely difficult for people. And then you don't see what's going on. And then what happens is we do see examples where there is police brutality. And of course we're gonna see it because there it, it has been a problem. I, I'm not saying it was problem with you gentlemen, but there were situations you guys have probably seen it before. It, it doesn't help you. No offense. And I know it's probably gonna piss some people off. Darrell gates was not a benefit to the Los Los Angeles police department. Some of the stuff he was enforcing, right? Some of like, for instance, the procedure of putting your knee on somebody's neck was enforced while Darrell gates was the commissioner for, for the Los Angeles police department. This is not something, in fact in Minnesota, that is not, was not in a legal hold that they were doing on it now to do it for that long obviously was ridiculous.

Michael Sartain (00:41:22):

But the problem is we get into these situations where it's like, you have police officers that want to protect and serve their community. And then you have a, a small group of individuals that lead them all the right wrong path. And then, then how do you counteract that with other people who are just as misinformed about the situation and then things get really ugly. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> again, I'm gonna skip ahead. You were gonna ask me before about like what the solution is. Have you guys seen that police officer who comes out there and like, does the, the dunk videos, he like dunks with the, with the kids and there's another one who like plays basketball. Have you seen that one video? One of my favorite videos. This guy pulls this other dude over as a police officer. He goes, why were you doing 90 and a 30?

Michael Sartain (00:41:55):

Have you guys seen this one? No. He told, man, why were you doing 90, a 30? He goes, cause I'm in the hood. He goes, yeah, that's a good guy. Em reason. It's dangerous. Here he goes. And then the officer looks at him and he goes, you got a gun in the car. He goes, no officer. He goes, he goes, well, let, hold on, let me go get you one. This is dangerous. Fucking neighborhood. Get the guy, like, stuff like that. Yeah. Like I, I know, listen, no one's gonna listen to me. But the reality is again, the majority of violent offenders are in what age group? You guys know what age offenders? They're not, they're not 55 years old. What age group?

Speaker 1 (00:42:25):

No, they 18 and 25. 18. Yeah. Late teens

Michael Sartain (00:42:28):

Are like twenties. They're in this to generation. Right? Okay. You guys are gonna ask me, how do you change this? This is the answer. Those guys doing those funny videos. It has doing more good than probably anything else. Right? Like if I was, if I worked in a neighborhood, like if I lived in Bankhead or if I lived in south Dallas and I was working a neighborhood like that, I would try to every day create funny TikTok videos with people in my community and try to get people on there for us to share. Like, it is really hard to, for somebody to draw down on a police officer that they know personally. Do you understand what I'm saying or who has done stuff in the community or has, who has come and brought, you know, helped out with your mom when she was trying to move or something to that effect where that person has actually tried to affect in the community.

Michael Sartain (00:43:09):

And if you can show this on social media, you can change the narrative. Because one thing that, that I found out about this generation, this youngest generation, this generation that's coming into power, this generation that's in TikTok, right? That that's this TikTok generation. If you will. One of the things that I've noticed is while their attention is strongly on things and they get outraged very quickly, they get UN outraged just as quickly. Oh yeah, exactly. This narrative, this narrative about police officers could be changed extremely fast. If there was an organized effort by police officers to, to take some control on social media and make law enforcement a funny thing, dude, that, that moron the, the, in Detroit, the one who keeps talking about disarming people with guns, the overweight black dude, you guys know what I'm talking about.

Speaker 1 (00:43:48):

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

Michael Sartain (00:43:49):

Yeah. Yeah. I mean that that's like, okay, like not that, cause I think that makes officers look bad that not him, but like in general, that kind of content is so like if you had police officers reacting to that stuff and just lapping their ass off, that would be funny. That is stuff that would go viral. And the other part about it is, especially with Instagram and Instagram reels and TikTok, that is the most scalable way for you to change this public service announcements by government officials don't do fucking anything for that generation of violent offenders that we were just referring to before. Yeah. Tiktok videos and reels do. And while that may be insulting for some people who are older, say, I don't wanna make TikTok videos. This is the way I run a seven figure business almost entirely off Instagram reels in TikTok. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> the, the, the, the eyeballs are all there. They're not watching Seinfeld anymore. They're not watching NBC news anymore. They're only watching TikTok and Instagram Dan's area right now. Go ahead.

Speaker 3 (00:44:45):

What one point I was gonna make, I was gonna say like, when you're talking about that with law enforcement and social media, I mean, we we've talked about that. That's been a topic we've covered a lot, cuz we're kind of in that thing where it's twofold. You, you want to get the positive messages out to the community and then you also have to be open about when you have critical incidents and something happens. You wanna, you wanna be open and transparent on that stuff too. So it, it really kind of affects the law enforcement world in two ways, the, the fun stuff, the community engagement stuff, but then also, Hey, we had something, you know, an officer involved shooting or something happen. Let's get information out as much as we can. So people feel like they're informed and we're not, you know, hiding anything. Right. Right.

Michael Sartain (00:45:24):

Yeah. I, I, I, I really don't think there's any level. Like again, you know, you guys, before we started this call, you guys were joking with each other. I imagine locker rooms and several police departments all over the country are very similar to what it was like when I played football in high school or when I was in the military and we were gonna go fly. These locker rooms are full of humor and jovial nature. And if you expressed more of that and did so on social media and made the like made it a more, a human experience for people, I I'm telling you the narrative guys, I don't know if you guys remember Russia invaded Ukraine. Does anybody remember that?

Speaker 1 (00:45:58):

Exactly right.

Michael Sartain (00:45:59):

Does everyone's completely forgot about that? Does anybody remember that when

Speaker 3 (00:46:01):

It happened?

Speaker 1 (00:46:02):

Yeah. Right. And it's still going on too, which is it's crazy.

Michael Sartain (00:46:05):

No one, no one gives a shit anymore. They get completely that whole generation completely forgotten about it. Now the SA same situation here. Right? We can, we can make this. If you guys wanted to change the narrative, you can, but the way you're going to have to change the narrative, again, those officers who I see making that really funny content or the content where they're out there with the community or stuff like that, that stuff like I would make the funniest, like cha I would make videos about like the like officers making fun of other officers or like chasing down crackhead videos or just funny, just any, I would go, I would make it as funny and relatable as PO to the point where like, you're almost getting the administration, like you're the higher ups of being like I'm a little bit cons, that's the line you want to go to?

Michael Sartain (00:46:47):

I'm sure for me, I would go to the point where literally the chief is like, man, you are getting so many followers and I'm not quite sure this is the message we want <laugh> but like, that's the line you want to go to. Right. If you guys do that and it becomes like, Hey, I'm John, the funny cop or whatever, by the way, the other, the other narrative, I, I would try to probably like, even if you are a law and order, obviously you guys are police officers. So you are. But like, I would really try to stay away from like American flags. Let's support Trump and fucking country music in the background because you're not speaking to your audience. The audience that you're trying to get to that is not the audience that is sitting there trying to defund the police. Do you understand what I'm saying?

Michael Sartain (00:47:23):

Right. Because, because you're kind because the problem is now, by the way, I, I am no, one's a bigger fan of the United States of America than me. But the problem is when you do that, what you're doing is, is like you're playing to stereotype and I don't wanna play to stereotype in these type of situations. Right, right. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> I want these people to understand, Hey, I'm coming out there again. If I was one of these individuals and I was out there playing basketball with some young kids, that to me is not playing to stereotype. That means I'm at least trying to reach out. Do you understand what I'm saying? Right. Yeah. That type, that type of situation. So it's just like, you know, I, I would not make it political in any way whatsoever, but I would make my commentary as human as possible. And I would try to make as much content as I could like that on TikTok and Instagram.

Michael Sartain (00:48:03):

And you know, maybe Twitter, if you want. And I would try to engage people in as fun, again, engaging people in a serious manner. We've tried that. We've done that. Okay. War on war, on drugs. We tried that guys. We tried that those things are like, they're not no offense. That's not cool. And I know people are gonna watch this. And like, well, we don't care about being cool get, but you're not the one. You're not the one doing a, B and E when you're fucking 16 years old. Those are the people that you guys are asking me about. And in order to change their minds, you're gonna have to be memorable, shareable, funny and viral. That is what's gonna happen. And if you guys don't believe me, then we're just gonna consistently have this disconnect between a young generation that is full of, you know, testosterone and anger and wanting to cancel people. And, and you know, and then this other group of older established individuals that are only about law and order, and these people do not communicate with each other. And then we end up with the same situation over and over again. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> does that make sense?

Speaker 1 (00:48:56):

Yeah, it kills a lot and it kills a lot of cops. It kills a lot of cops, cops get shot every single day. A lot of that has to do with that fact, you know what I mean,

Michael Sartain (00:49:01):

Ex exactly. Like, again, again, I, I just, I just, I'm telling you from a psychological standpoint, if you wake up every day and you're following police officers on TikTok, because they're making really, really funny shareable content, the likelihood of you engaging in some kind of violent activity against them is just not likely. It just, it is such a small psychological thing, but like again, are there other solutions, there are plenty of other solutions, but those solutions have been tried. It's above my pay grade to try to make cocaine legal. That's not what we're here, what we're talking about. Right, right, right, right. That's not what we were talking about. The, the criminal, what, what we, we can talk about criminal reform or we can talk about the privatization of jails, how that's worked out. This is not what we're talking about today. Right? Right. Now you guys are talking about the relations that people have with the police.

Michael Sartain (00:49:41):

And the reality of the situation is that stuff has to stop, but you can't, I, I don't think force is what stops it or has ever stopped it. Right. I think what, the thing that is going to change people's minds again, is there has to be some level of connection made to that peer group. And the, the most viral way to do that is on social media. And because I've seen personally so many great examples of content where police officers are making really good content on TikTok and Instagram. Yeah. And it's making them more and they're becoming, you know, online viral influencers and stars. I think that is the key. And just like, we forgot about Ukraine, we're gonna forget about this, the rest of this stuff. And we can go back to loving police officers. I think that that would, that is something that that's completely. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (00:50:24):

And that's another thing that we've touched on too, is that unfortunately the, the majority of stuff that you're seeing, the stuff that people put out on social media is all the bad stuff that is happening. Yes. Or, or, you know, the controversial stuff where in reality, cops are out there doing great things, of course, a a hundred times more good things than, than your one or two bad apples. I I think, and you gotta get that message out there.

Michael Sartain (00:50:47):

So, so Scott, I think what people need to hear honestly, is that when those officers screw up, you, as officers say, yeah, those officers screwed up. What I think people are worried about. And the, so both these things are true. Those officers screwed up. 99% of officers are good. Both both of those things are true. The thing is they need to hear both of those things. And the problem is a lot of times, like, again, when I, when someone says defund the police, of course it's absurd. But the thing is when I hear that, I'm like, okay, let me address why you feel like you need to defund the police. And then let me explain to you why when you do that, you're actually making yourself safer and you're making the police less safe and you're making yourself less safe from the police because you have poorly trained officers, right?

Michael Sartain (00:51:28):

Like this is, this is completely counterproductive to the thing you think you want. Let me walk you through why that doesn't work. And there's no hate or derision in my voice. Okay. Right. That's, that's what I think people need. Right. And if you were to do something like that, then I think it would work. But what happens is man, you have two groups of people that live in these echo chambers, and it's not helpful. Like the echo chambers are one of the do. I'm telling you right now, I had a socialist on my podcast the other day. And I have fucking Andrew Tate coming on in a couple weeks. <Laugh> you could not have any two completely different people. I have a woman who's writing a book on feminism. And I had, I have some gentleman who coming on. I have what Rolo Tamasi coming on. My podcast could not possibly be further from each other as far as what their beliefs are, because I don't live in an echo chamber. Right. I don't live in an echo chamber. Well,

Speaker 3 (00:52:13):

It's, it's your whole point about, about being able to have conversations, correct? You, you gotta, you gotta be able to be, listen to people who have opposing opinions to you. Yes. Hey, or you don't solve, you don't solve anything.

Michael Sartain (00:52:25):

Hey I'll tell you, I'll tell you one thing. I didn't vote for Biden nor Trump. You know why? Cause to me a military officer or a police officer should have been president of the United States. I don't understand why I live in a country with 330 million people. And I have to, I have to choose between two 70 year old men who have made racist comments and both been accused of sexual assaults. Why are these my two choices? Right? Why can't I got, why can't I get a two star general with two PhDs. Who's started a business and run it successfully and put kids through college. Why can't I get that guy to be my president? Why do I have to settle for these two people? Again? When I say that it's very unpopular to a lot of people, they're like, they don't wanna hear that because why?

Michael Sartain (00:53:04):

Because they live in an echo chamber and their political candidate is always good. Believe women, until they, until you accuse Joe Biden, then we don't believe women anymore. And then with Donald Trump, it's like, yeah, Donald Trump is great. And then he says things that are just objectively false. And you're just like, okay, neither one of these people is worthy of our vote, but yet this is what we, we come down to choose. And when I say that, people are like, oh, that's just a cop out. No, it's not. We deserve better. And part of the reason why we don't get better is because of this echo chamber society. I have friends of mine. I'm going on this podcast in a couple of months planets, really, really controversial podcast. And I know when I go on, I have several female friends who are going to be very upset with me that I went on this podcast.

Michael Sartain (00:53:41):

And it it's just one of these situations where like, yeah, you know the message that you've been trying to spread. No, one's listening to it. Right? Cause it's an echo chamber. So if you guys go to a convention full of like, you know, law and order, you know, right. Wing individuals and start talking about, well, you know, we need to, you know, we need to stop this violence against police. Those are not the people who are conducting violence against the police, right? You're you're, it's again, you're backing your echo chamber where everyone's gonna cheer and just go and be, go for no, in order to evoke change, you have to leave your echo chamber and you have to speak to people who fundamentally might not agree with some of the things that you have to say. And the common language that you can find with those people.

Michael Sartain (00:54:18):

I found two of them. One of them is humor. And the other one is science, but humor, most, most definitely. When, when you use humor in those situations, you humanize individuals. Does that make sense? Yep. That's like, to me there, there is no, because there is no other way. You did not grow up with the same experience that a kid growing up, up in a crack house in east St. Louis did, there's just no way for you to necessarily understand his experience. So how do we come together? Humor? I found that to be humor and comradery, especially amongst men, especially amongst a teammate. It's really hard to be a racist man. If you've served in a military unit with African Americans and people of different of different ethnicities, it's that just, it's it whips the racist that matter. You real quick when you, when you see stuff like that.

Michael Sartain (00:54:58):

So for me, it's like one of these situations where like, yes, are you guys right? Of course, you're right now. Do you wanna win though? We all, I was saying an MOA, do you wanna win the argument? Or do you wanna win? You could win. You could get to the ballot box. You could get your candidate in political office. And you still have a bunch of people out there who are committing crimes who feel completely disenfranchised to me. I wanna win the, I wanna, I wanna win. I don't wanna just win the argument I wanna win. So in order to do that, I have to, in order for me to affect change, I have to be able to speak to these people who do not agree with me. Does that make sense? Yep. I'd flat earths on my podcast for three hours and debated them. Right. <laugh> and I went step by step trying to show them guys, you, this is why this doesn't work. You know what I'm saying? But there was no hate in my boys. And so I know while that may not be as exciting, it's way more exciting to just espouse hate, right? The reality is, or to, or to have a very black and white type of opinion. The reality situation is you're not gonna change anybody when you're speaking in an echo chamber.

Speaker 2 (00:55:48):

Right. Because that's like you said, I mean, we we've tried, we we've tried, you know, violence. We've tried hate. I mean, we, we mean, we've gotta try something different because this is, it just has to change on all sides. I think the truth has to be talked about the truth has to be dealt with. And I think there, like, you know, just like you said, humor might just be the middle ground where people just start talking because then, you know, if, if you could laugh at yourself and then other people could laugh at you and you could laugh at them and then maybe the next step would be, have, you know, a conversation about how we make other changes.

Michael Sartain (00:56:17):

Listen, man, PE people who follow each other, don't tend to shoot at each other. I'm just saying, man, like, I, I know it seems so vapid and shallow to an older generation, but the reality is like, nobody wants to get shot. Like we have to do something about this and this, this younger generation of kids do not read books. They don't sit down and watch 30 minute television programs. They watch 15 second reels on Instagram. This is the only way to communicate with these individuals. And I've taken a, like personally, I I'm a 40, I'm almost 45 year old, retired us military officer. I come from a dif, I was born in the 1970s. I was come from a different generation. When I see this, I don't, I sometimes I don't understand my social media manager. She's younger than me. And she, she posts these reels that are 15 seconds long.

Michael Sartain (00:57:00):

They're just nothing reals, not maybe 90 seconds long, just very short clips and soundbites. And my engagement grows drastically. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> so whatever we're doing works, and I'm able to run a seven figure business because of it. So I know this works. So if that's what works, then that's the only way I think to communicate with this, if you, for lack of a better term add generation, that's just what has to happen. Right? And so the, the, the best way to communicate with them, again, I get recognized always on the street because of my podcast and because of, of this, the stuff that I post on my reels and my TikTok in order for me to do that, I, I think if police officers were to do the same thing, you would get a very different reaction in certain neighborhoods. Because of that. Does that make sense?

Speaker 1 (00:57:39):

Yeah. Oh yeah, it does. Chrisy does bring up a good point because I have three sons and they're all, you know, between the ages of 10 and 16. And each one of them is individually coming up to me and said, you know, dad, you gotta get ONAC you gotta get on this, that. And I'm like, yeah, I went, what come on, get outta here. Like, you're a guy that fell asleep on a bag at Doritos last night and ground him up and I gotta come him outta your bed. And I gotta listen to you, but he's right. He's got a valid point. I mean, this is, this is what these kids say. And case in point is it's my own lab right here. All three of 'em came forward and said to me, and they all are just all day looking at that stuff.

Speaker 1 (00:58:09):

Now that can aggravate the crap that, I mean, like I've said, in other stories, we used to get mad when we talked about peer support and how these young guys needed to be able to get that stuff off of her chest, where we would just go home and eat it, become drunks abusive and die in our fifties. And we said, nah, it's gotta change. It's gotta change. Which that, and we said, all right, well, if this is the generation a guy that's coming to us, if an officer that's coming to us, we gotta get used to the fact that these people wanna work life balance. They want this and we can dismiss it all we want, but look at where we're at for dismissing it. We can't get people to be police officers. Right? So the point that he's making is exactly that we've gotta go out there and do this as much as it's like completely foreign to. And it's like, you know, go back to the gray beard again. Like, how am I gonna pull this off with people? Well, Hey, if I don't try, I'm never gonna, they have filters for that. Right? Exactly. Put like a dog ears on there.

Michael Sartain (00:58:52):

Yeah. So, so let's go back to what you say. Like me personally, I make the decision to shake men's hand when I talk to them, look them in the eyes and always, always, always keep my word. That's a decision I made personally to, to maintain my own level of integrity. The thing is I have clients and you guys have members of the community that you serve and they don't all choose to behave or make the same decisions that I made. Right. But the reality is we still have to deal with them. We still have to work with them. And even though they do things that we don't agree with, the idea that we're just going to just, just disagree, like overtly disagree with them. That that's what leads to misunderstanding and then eventually violence. So that's one of these situations where it's just like, it's just like, do I agree with it?

Michael Sartain (00:59:31):

Do I wanna wear dog ears and wear these fucking filters on my face when I'm on? Of course I don't wanna do that. Right. It's ridiculous. But I do it because it works. And, and, and to me, because I'm an entrepreneur, I have to do it for that same, that same point. And the other thing is like, I recruit for bikini competitions. My, the main girls I recruit are 22 years old. Like they, there's no way they're going to like listen to long form content about, do you know how many people, you know, what's one of the craziest things. So I do a two hour podcast every week. And some of my, I do episodes on quantum mechanics. I do episodes on psychology. I do episodes with porn stars. I do episodes with Danzer Ty Lopez, J Cutler. I do episodes on steroids and testosterone.

Michael Sartain (01:00:06):

And the, I would say of my total impressions, I'd say 15% of it are people watching the podcast. And 85% of my impressions are people watching clips of my podcast on Instagram and TikTok. It's, it's like six to one. Like let's say I get 3 million impressions a a month, like 2.5 million of those impressions or more are people watching 60, 32nd clips of my podcast cuz they have no intention span. Right? They just, they don't communicate the same way that we do where we would listen to like an entire episode of Joe Rogan. They can't do that anymore. Or listen to an entire audio book. They just not functionally capable of that. So now, because I understand that well, okay, what's the best way for me to communicate with those individuals? Well, let's communicate with them on their own terms. And the thing is humor still works. Humor is still works. It doesn't matter what the generation is because humor is evolutionary. Whereas TikTok is not text. Tiktok is cultural hu. The idea of humor is, is evolutionary. And so that's the reason why, why that whole thing works.

Speaker 3 (01:01:03):

Wow. And I, and this is all stuff I'm sure that you cover in your course and everything too, right? Absolutely. You can really kinda get it's a full package of all these things. It's it's it's society. It's, it's it's you know, people's backgrounds, it's understanding all that. It sounds, it sounds really interesting.

Michael Sartain (01:01:20):

Yeah. I mean, it's, it's basically looking at all motivations to the eyes of evolutionary psychology. And then from that point being like, well, how is it that you obtain certain levels of status? Right? So what it status is status of status. Like if you are, again, we talked about this before, like if I'm just trying to think of a famous person who doesn't do not particularly Ryan Seacrest, like Ryan crest, Ryan Seacrest was an announcer who hosted TV shows. If the four of us try to get in front of a venture capitalist or Ryan CCRS tried to get in front of the same venture capitalist who would get in front of first. Right. Obviously he would, right. Even though he's not in venture capital, he would because he has more status than us. It is one of the points I teach in my, in my program, we listen to individuals like mark Cuban makes statements about like high frequency trading when he has no idea what he's talking about.

Michael Sartain (01:02:03):

He does not because I, I know cause I work for a hedge fund. He has no idea what he's talking about, but we listen to him because he has 5 billion. Right, right. And so, so my opinion, which is the, the reality of the situation is the reason why you can trade your bid ass spread when you trade S spy is one, penny is because of high frequency trading. The reason why you're able to get filled at such a low price or at such a good price is because of high frequency trading. Mark Cuban doesn't understand that. And so, because he doesn't and he sit there and ESP he's a 65 year old man espousing that we listen to him cause he has $5 billion. And we don't listen to me, even though I trade for a living. So it's, it's one of, it's one of those situations where status is status is I love using the Jake Paul example, Jake Paul, who could get in front of the president of United States, faster us or Jake Paul it's obvious.

Michael Sartain (01:02:40):

Right, right, right. But Jake, Paul is not a politician, but he could do it because he has more status than us that right. Right. So that, that's it. So I treat, teach these guys. It's like one of these situations where it's like, you wanna affect change, you are going to have to gain some level of status. And in some people's minds, the way you do that is if they follow you on social media and how do they do that? Because you create shareable, viral content that entertains them or engages them in some way. Does that make sense? Yeah. And so absolutely I would, I would, I would make as many funny cop videos as possible. I would try to push the limit as far as I can. Those dude perfect videos where you guys they're like throwing a ball over their head and trying to make it half court shot or whatever. There's one police officer who does like trick basketball shots. It's really, really good stuff, stuff like that. I know it seems so small, but like the problem is like the, the issue is a lack of communication between two different groups of people. And this is probably the, the most key, common denominator between them.

Speaker 2 (01:03:29):

Wow. That's awesome. Yeah. Well, I we've been talking for a long time. We can go on and on and on and on, and this is great. And we'd love to have you back for sure. Mike, this is oh

Michael Sartain (01:03:37):

Yeah. I'd love to. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:03:38):

Yeah. That'd be

Michael Sartain (01:03:39):

Good. Hey, so I have a couple questions for you guys. Sure.

Speaker 2 (01:03:42):

Go ahead. Sure.

Michael Sartain (01:03:42):

Yeah. Police officers in general, you guys saw in so the, the legalization of marijuana, were you guys in favor of it? Have you seen my, my estimation is when it was legalized in certain states that you would see the criminalization of it in certain places like Mexico and at the border go down. And that's exactly what we've seen. Do you, do you guys agree with that? Do you think that that worked out the way you thought it, did you think it's a, a better use of your time? You remember the NBA reps have to, had to look at the three second rule and they got rid of the rule, right? It feels like it was a waste of your, your time to bus guys for marijuana.

Speaker 1 (01:04:12):

Scott, you wanna go on that one first? Cause you got the

Speaker 3 (01:04:14):

Mosty? Yeah, I mean, I, you know, the way I, I guess I, the thing I, I probably had a problem with initially was the way that it was sold, cuz I think it was like, it was trying to be sold a certain way when I felt really what they were pushing was just a way to tax it and make more money off of it. Sure. I mean, you know, I'm in, I'm in Illinois and you know, the, the, the pitch that was made to it here was like, oh, it's gonna be this great thing. And it's gonna help all, you know, people with different varying medical, medical conditions. And I, and it does. I mean, I'm not disputing that, but like, it was just, I felt like they were using that really just as an excuse to make money. So

Michael Sartain (01:04:52):

Yeah, they were Flo, they were flopping a hundred percent. Yeah. But my whole thing was like, I, I felt like it was a waste of our resources as a criminal justice system to be going after people for, for smokey marijuana. I just, I felt like there was so many worse things.

Speaker 2 (01:05:05):

Yeah. But I think if you got to take it in context too, like, I mean, there's been times that, you know, we caught somebody with a, you know, gram or we, whatever, like here just, you know, take it it's it's, it's not, I, for me, it wasn't so much the weed, it what kids were doing or what people were doing to get it because they didn't have jobs. Then it was, they didn't know their limits and they would, and, and they would do something stupid, just like drunk driving. It's the same thing. And so I just, for me, I just think it was more I actually saw an increase in criminal activity for a while.

Michael Sartain (01:05:41):


Speaker 2 (01:05:42):

I saw an increase in the black market because

Michael Sartain (01:05:44):

The, because the, because in the black market, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:05:47):

Right. Well here, and here's what I think in criminal activity, in the black market, I saw an increase and, and I, I don't know if people are gonna agree with me until people actually figured out that if I go pay the tax, that's less than going to jail and I lose my weed. Hmm. So I, I think once people started figuring out, you know, figuring out that it, it, you know, go tax, go pay the tax and whatever, and you could have it legally. That's when I kind of, that was my assumption. But I did see, I, I saw a spike and then I saw a decrease. But for me, I mean, it, I just, I was never one that was in the drugs or whatever. And it was to me, I, I,

Michael Sartain (01:06:23):

I mean, I've never tried, I've never tried marijuana. I just felt like us police officers, like this is just one more thing. That's going like it, we are funding. It's one more source of revenue for the cartel. And one more thing that you guys have to worry about that, that I just don't think was, I'm not saying it's not deleterious. I just don't think it's worse than alcohol. I think alcohol is terrible. Just as bad for people as, as, as marijuana. I'm gonna ask you guys another question. They're talking about certain places in Oregon where they're going to in certain areas, legalize things like cocaine. What do you guys think about that? Is that too? You guys remember the wire, you remember they had a place Amsterdam in Baltimore. Yeah. Where they basically, anything was legal as long as you stayed on that one city block. Yeah. Do you guys think though that, what do, what kind of effects do you think something like that would happen would

Speaker 1 (01:07:08):

Happen? To me, I, I think the issue with that is that as police officers, I mean, we can think what we want, but we gotta go with what the law says and, and kind of, yeah. Work it from there. And, and we have this great thing called discretion back to when we were talking about weed. Like I was like, I can do what I want with weed as long as it's illegal, but at same sense, I also have discretion to, I it's on me to learn better about this person and why they might be smoking weed and what the situation may be. And what I can do with that. If the DEA can say, we're not even gonna come out and look at anything other to 2000 pounds of weed, that's a tremendous amount of weed, but they're not even gonna come out and look at it and they're gonna let the locals deal with it.

Speaker 1 (01:07:38):

The way I look at the, the situation with drugs on that level is I can think what I want. And I can say, Hey, this is what this could amount to. But the people that are in charge, the people that elected those folks say, this is what we're gonna do. And I have to deal with it. You know what I mean? I have to be able to deal with it. And I have to look at the bigger issue as to why would a person need that because that's not good for them to do it, or like anything else they can in excess is the problem. We particularly show it with heroin. And when we had a heroin problem in the Chicago area, what parents started doing was because they didn't want their kids to die from heroin. They were like, well, give them Narcan. Well, we'd bring these kids back from Narcan.

Speaker 1 (01:08:08):

And there was no consequence for using the Narcan. Like we didn't get them in mandatory rehab or even trying to do it. And we would take prostitutes and put them in all sorts of prostitution, you know? And these girls would be at these events at, through the courts of calling up Johns, you know? So it wasn't worked. It was oversight people doing what they thought was feeling good because they didn't wanna really look at a lot of the issues that surrounded. Why does somebody become addicted? We didn't wanna understand that. We just wanted to jam people. Yeah. Thought does create crime and things like that. But the bottom line was, is like, and I used to say to people, okay, well, Narcan saves the white kid that rolled down from the suburbs to buy heroin on the west side of Chicago. Yeah. That kid dies.

Speaker 1 (01:08:41):

And he drives back down there and gets heroin again, that doesn't solve the gang problem in Chicago, between the two black kids that have to live. And the only economic that the only economy that they have is narcotics. Yeah. Because we don't wanna address the issues that really impact black communities. And to me, I was like, look, we, we execute. We have discretion. We have to dig a little deeper as cops to say, why is this really happening? Is this person really a bad person as to what they're doing? I saw more people killed over weed, Scott, correct me if I'm wrong where we worked, then I did any over any other drug, cuz weed was always money and people killed each other over money, not the weed. Right. Cause guy pushed. A lot of weed, had a lot of money

Speaker 3 (01:09:17):

And, and we, we worked narcotics for a long time. And to Sean's point like with heroin mean, I guess it's like, where do you start to go? Where, what, what do you continue to say is okay. And you know, and create safe spaces to use these kind of drugs. I mean, we we've seen so many young people overdose, essentially die and get brought back or young kids who they were stealing and selling all their parents' stuff. And you know, the, a lot of parents wanted to get 'em treatment and came to us for help to say, what do we do to get them, this, them away from this. I, I had a very good friend who died from a heroin overdose. So like I don't, I don't, to me like the weed thing, it's become a little more watered down and yeah. You know, I, I see kind of, I see both sides of that.

Speaker 3 (01:10:05):

But like when you start getting into these hard drugs, I just, I don't think it's, I don't think it's productive. I don't think it, it really does anything to help anybody just by creating more. I think we should be doing to Sean's point. We should be doing more to, I agree with like trying to get treatment for these people and maybe, maybe part of the punishment. And I I'm always in favor of this is like get into some kind of treatment and maybe that will lessen the punishment. You know what I mean? Like let's do something positive to try to help get these people away from it. As opposed to, you know,

Michael Sartain (01:10:38):

I live in a city, I live in Las Vegas where extremely affluent affluent individuals choose of their own volition to do drugs and and like a lot of drugs and one of the situations where the way I see it, and again, you guys are bringing up great points about individual communities. I, because my, my family's Colombian. So I do see this from more of a, like a, a macroeconomic view. <Laugh> the, the, the reality of the situation is I really think the way you defund those individuals is while I'm not the biggest fan of Johnson and Johnson or Dow chemical, I'd rather have them making it than Pablo Escobar. So like, that's that, to me, like, that's one of the things that we take a lot of the power away from those individuals who are creating, like, again, the murder capital of the Western hemisphere was Coda.

Michael Sartain (01:11:27):

Dewar is at one point and then it was Tijuana. Right. And then, and then, then the other murder capitals were like Baton Rouge, Louisiana. And it was all tied to drugs. It was all tied to the, the transport of illegal narcotics. And so to me, I, again, the marijuana thing to me, I'm, I'm in favor of the, the cocaine thing. I'm not really sure I would. I, that's why I wanted to ask you guys about, cause I do know in some places in Oregon, they're going to try to pass laws to, or maybe they already have I don't know if the federal government is gonna come shoot it down, but the, the intention was to have certain zones in Oregon or was in Washington. I forget where you can take cocaine or you can do cocaine. And as long as it's regulated and as long it's in this certain area the other thing I wanna ask you guys about as officers, once you guys get into your forties, is it a common practice for now?

Michael Sartain (01:12:11):

Again, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna take it to this level, but danser came on my podcast and was very, very open about the fact that guys and special ops take steroids. And this is something I kind of knew kind of under the rug. I didn't realize to the certain, the level that it was, but I, I, to me, if you were gonna ask me, do I think it's okay. If a guy who was going to go do a clandestine mission to try to serve his country an extremely dangerous territory. If I have a problem of this, guy's taking Anbar and fucking testosterone. I do not have a problem with it. Not whatsoever. These guys are the tip of the spear, and if they're doing it for country, I don't have an issue with it. What am I, I am curious. Do you guys find police officers once they get like in their late thirties, early forties, do they turn to TRT? Is it something that you guys have seen recently or something that you've seen happen happen before?

Speaker 2 (01:12:57):

No. The only thing that I've seen recently is guys in their forties, actually going to the doctor to get their testosterone levels taken. Yeah. Or are seen that I've seen more of that from, but,

Michael Sartain (01:13:07):

But they're not getting on TT.

Speaker 2 (01:13:08):

I, I I'll be they're I don't they're they do get medication. I don't, I've never asked what they, yeah. So,

Michael Sartain (01:13:13):

So yeah. So usually if you, if you're on TRT and your testosterone gets like below 300, 200, they're gonna put you on exogenous testosterone. It's a testosterone SYP eight, which is an injection you'll do once or twice a week. And then it'll it's usually it's made from grape seed or sometimes from yams. And it gets your testosterone levels back to where they were when you were like 20, 20, 2 years old. That that's essentially, I'm, I'm curious because it's something that's grown exponentially in this country, in the last the last decade. It's like 12 million men on, on TRT now.

Speaker 2 (01:13:40):

Yeah. But it, it doesn't really, it wasn't even special ops. It's just guys, my age that you felt like tired or lost for sex driver, whatever.

Speaker 1 (01:13:48):

I mean, I haven't been in SWAT for 17 years and seeing that, and I was old when I got involved in it, cuz I didn't come into in law enforcement law.

Michael Sartain (01:13:55):

When you were in SWAT, you didn't think any of the guys, you, again, obviously, I don't want you to tell anybody, but you didn't think any of those guys were taking Roys. You didn't think any of the guys, you were, you were serving were takings.

Speaker 1 (01:14:02):

I had no, honestly tangible proof of it. And I'm gonna tell you why this I didn't and I, you know, I never did. I never had a fiction for it. I didn't have a body or anything like that to think like that I was gonna do that, that but you know, I was in my forties and I half the guys on the team, I could beat in some of the physical fitness aspect of it. I'm like, so if you're taking it, you're getting bad shit. <Laugh> you know what I mean? So, you know, but the thing is, is that I, I, I, one of the things that we all had to do is we had to take annual physicals and that kind of stuff might show up in those high accounts. And if that goes back, you'd

Michael Sartain (01:14:31):

Be, yeah. Not usually if you, if you take testosterone precipitate, it's not gonna show up. There's nothing. It's just gonna show that you have a high testosterone level. So

Speaker 1 (01:14:36):

I think you, I know so little about it. I mean, I, I can't honestly say unequivocally, there were some guys that, you know, he looked at and said, man, he looks like he's juicing, but right. Yeah. Had no proof of it. And honestly, a lot of us really didn't go that route. I mean, a lot of us saw that as I, you just my experience with it, a lot of those guys that did that shit got injured quite a bit really. And that took them off the team. Like, yeah, that's definitely I'm testosterone. My, you know, testosterones already like, look what it does to boys. I have three of 'em. It's just like Jesus to survive. You know what I mean? Yeah. But then, but then like, alright, I'm gonna bench 500 pounds. Okay. Well now I just ripped my shoulder out and I can't hold the shield up.

Speaker 1 (01:15:10):

I I'm not gonna do that. I, I would rather hold the shield up. So you had skinny rails, like meet it, you know, can go 17 years without any significant injury. <Laugh> and you know what I mean? It's like, I, I I'd say most of the guys, I'm gonna be honest with you. I had never heard it openly talked about because you know, it is like you just get there and you're at lunch and you're yeah. I was on a regional teams, which took guys from SWAT teams all over the region and we're talking a densely populated area from where we were from and that stuff never came up. People weren't like, oh yeah, he's juicing or yeah, look at him. You know what I mean? People would joke. It's more about how much tattoo ink they could handle probably than anything else. You know what I mean?

Michael Sartain (01:15:43):

<Laugh> so, so the the, the there's two different things and a lot of people don't realize this part of it, cuz it's, it's definitely changed my life. There is the legal aspect of it, which is testosterone, Sy eight. Some people can take Anbar. They're gonna give you estrogen blockers. And there's this stuff called HCG, which prevents statistical atrophy. There's there's million tens of millions of people on this. It's completely legal. You can go to any T R T clinic and they'll do this for you immediately. Then there's the anabolic side. This is Trabu. This is Trone DECA, all these other things. These are illegal steroids. This is the guy who bench presses 500 pounds who gets really greasy, who has the fucking veins on his neck that look like water hoses. His hair starts falling out and he gets violent. This is anabolic steroids versus androgen, testosterone, androgen, test testosterone and his TRT. And that's what guys are on the anabolic steroids is the stuff that like where guys are, you know, just getting humongous. And it was just interesting to me listening to listening, to, to BZ talk about it. He's like, yeah, guys in the teams were all, a lot of them weren't taking steroids. It was very common. So I was just interesting. I was just interested to see it. Was

Speaker 2 (01:16:42):

It something like, like I said, I mean, for me, I just, cuz I'm, you know, we used to talk about, you know, magazines and you know, scotch and now we're talking about testosterone levels.

Michael Sartain (01:16:52):


Speaker 2 (01:16:52):

Right. Know that that's the

Speaker 1 (01:16:54):

Age, my PSAs let's talk about those real quick. You know what I mean? Let's about those things. Why is it so high? Why isn't it supposed to be high? Do what that thing. Cause is it to go up? You know what I mean? Right.

Michael Sartain (01:17:05):

Do you guys do any formal training when it comes to like cluster B personality disorders? Like guys like actual psychopaths? Do you guys do anything profiling or any, any kind of training like that?

Speaker 2 (01:17:13):

We have started over the last couple years we have started I don't wanna say it's like a profiling psychopath or whatever, but it's, it's profiling individuals mm-hmm <affirmative> and we're just getting more and more tools to identify different things. Like, you know, like years ago, you know, some guy didn't listen to you, you know, you you'd slam the ground and you know, cuz there's the fights on or whatever now, you know, you're learning to take out a pad of paper cuz maybe he's autistic and he can't, he's not verbal. Yeah. But he could draw, well, 15 years ago you would think the fights on he's not complying, you know, like, okay, you're taking the custody a little rougher today. You give him a pad of paper and he's like, no, I'm good. My feet hurt or whatever. So I think we're getting, we're getting more. I don't wanna go.

Speaker 3 (01:17:57):

I think at the street level, we're not, yeah, we're not, we're not doing as much, much of that as the, as the, as the street level stuff where, you know, we get a lot of training. We, I mean mental health has definitely become a big thing in law enforcement. And so we're definitely trying to get a lot more in tune with mental health and the like both the people that we deal with and our own mental health at times too. So, you know, maybe not anything specific to that, but we are definitely, I think law enforcement generally is taking a much more positive approach to mental health and how to deal with people that are maybe, you know, the same people that we're dealing with over and over again. Yeah. Or people that, you know, before you just like, Hey, I'm going to this house again now is where it's like, Hey, what can we maybe do to try to provide some resources for this person?

Michael Sartain (01:18:39):

You know? Right. Yeah. Dude, I, I would highly recommend the murderer next door by Dr. David bus, such a great book, something like 78% of murders or men killing other men over women. Like worldwide, not just like in, in us cities.

Speaker 3 (01:18:51):

Yeah. Wasn't name that book

Michael Sartain (01:18:52):

Again. It's called the murderer next door by Dr. David bus. It's fantastic. He, so that's initially what he got into was the study of, of homicide. And then from that he switched to evolutionary psychology. He started studying because that's essentially what E that's what murderer comes from E murderer is an evolutionary adaptation. I know it seems crazy. It seems incredibly barbaric, but for the majority of our existence, we lived in nomadic tribes and that was the solution to, that was a, a very effective and permanent solution to several problems was murder. Yeah. So was homicide. So, so that's the reason why it's in our it's it's really crazy book at the very end of the book. They, they people ask the question, why is there so much murder in the world? And his question is why isn't there more like when you actually look at like the people's behavior, literally

Speaker 3 (01:19:34):

A safer time than we ever has in our, in

Michael Sartain (01:19:36):

Our history, again, it's in Steven peaker, Steven peaker wrote a book about that. That was also very like offensive to a lot of people. It's like, yeah, this is the healthiest, safest time ever with the actual lowest levels of police brutality. And people get offended when you say that. And so like that, that those type of things are, are very inconvenient for their narrative. But when you show them statistics that they don't agree with, and that also becomes that that becomes a that's what my show is. My podcast is about statistics that make people uncomfortable. 80% of divorces are initiated by women, stuff like that. Like, people don't like these, they don't like these terms because they, it doesn't fit with their narrative, but their, their science behind, which makes a lot of people makes a lot of people up upset whenever, whenever they see that kind of stuff. And there was I can't remember. What was it, there was one other question I wanna ask you guys, but I don't remember anyway, I'll sorry. I, I can't, I can't come

Speaker 2 (01:20:20):

Over right now next time. Cuz there will be a next time. So for sure your give your podcast in your coaching thing one more time.

Michael Sartain (01:20:26):

Yeah. So the podcast is the Michael Sartan podcast. You can find it everywhere on apple. You can find it on Spotify, YouTube and then you can find clips of it on TikTok Facebook and Instagram. You can find the clips on there. A lot of people, they just wanna watch the funny clips that are like 90 seconds long, but I would recommend you guys check out, check me out on on YouTube. That's probably the best way to watch it. And then as far as my coaching program, it's MOA, MOA If you guys go in there, you're gonna see like a sales video. That's about a VSL. That's about seven minutes long and it's gonna go over the different parts of the program. And then you will see 50, 50 testimonials from my clients. Like I said, I have never had a legitimate, I have had some guy try to rip me off was like right at 30 days he was like, oh, I wanna refund.

Michael Sartain (01:21:10):

And it was like he was taking the course and stealing shit, but I've never had a legitimate, a legitimate request for a refund from this program. And like I said before, I think we're at three, somewhere between three 40 and 370 clients. That's great on now. We've, we've going just UN just under two months or two years that we've been doing the program and it's worked out really, really well, been able to help a lot of people. So you guys are interested in that. And ladies too, I do have a rule with the ladies. The way it works is you can come and join the program for free, but you have to show me that you're actually serious about learning about the program. If you do, we actually give you the program for free, because I do want more women in the program. I, so, so so just, just like a bar guys, gotta pay ladies getting fixed.

Speaker 1 (01:21:48):

<Laugh> no, I was gonna say it's just like that's from your DJ days too. Wasn't yeah, right? Yeah. It all comes full circle. Thunder, Mike

Michael Sartain (01:21:53):

Ladies, ladies getting free. So yeah, those are, those are two main things. As far as, as far as the podcast I, I do I'm, I'm trying to find like an FBI profiler. That's kind of the next thing that I'm looking for a lot. I've had way too many porn stars on recently. A lot of crazy social media. You guys never even asked me the influencer question. I remember you guys were, were gonna ask me about that. 

Speaker 2 (01:22:13):


Speaker 1 (01:22:14):

Well, yeah, like describe to our listeners, what did, what an influencer actually. Okay,

Michael Sartain (01:22:17):

So, so ready. So here's your, here's your act clip ready? Some of you have hear the term influencer and you start thinking, this is a term for young people who do not have a job who just wanna sit around and post on social media. That aren't real models. That aren't real entrepreneurs that are just like, come up with some word to make themselves relevant when they aren't doing anything. That may be what you think. And you're completely fucking correct. That is exactly what it's <laugh> for the vast majority of people. I'm I'm what would be called a micro influencer. Cause I don't, I don't have millions of followers. So I be would call a micro influencer, but I, I don't call myself an influencer to me, I'm an entrepreneur. I run a seven figure business that comes off of my social media. So because of that, I'm an, I would say I'm an entrepreneur and I'm a coach.

Michael Sartain (01:22:58):

I don't call myself an influencer. Now I do have some friends, like I would say Ty Lopez, DANSR Lindsay Payless, Emily Sears. Those are actual influencers. Those, those people have four, five, 6 million, 32 million followers on social media. When they do stuff they can run in massive businesses. Bazarian now the CEO of a publicly traded company because of their social media influence. That's definitely another thing they can do. But a girl with a hundred thousand followers can actually make a living now selling like fit tea or pre-workouts, or, you know, SP like workout gear or stuff like that. Sure. So essentially, essentially there was a void and a word needed to be created so that these people who are essentially, you know, a lot, most of them do nothing. I'm just gonna be honest with, most of them do absolutely nothing. And they, they want to imagine that they're celebrities when they're not right or successful, or again, the word entrepreneur used to mean something back in the eighties and seventies, it means absolutely nothing. Entrepreneur means I take my investor's money and then I go to tum. That's what entrepreneur means.

Speaker 5 (01:23:52):


Michael Sartain (01:23:54):

I, I, I, I tell my, I tell my, my, my sales team, I don't ever want you to wor use the word entrepreneur or influencer anywhere in my sales copy. I hate those words cuz they, because they've been perverted, they've been like a bunch of drifters and scam artists use those words now. Right? Me coaches I'll I'll coach or instructor. I'm fine with that. Those things. I'm fine. A teacher I'm okay with that word. Yeah, professor I'm okay. But I'm not okay with the word and I never use the word influencer or entrepreneur. Because again, those words have meanings and people don't use those meanings correctly. So I don't, I don't like those words. Yeah. But that, that's essentially what it means. And if you guys wanna know like where, you know, what does it come from? There are a lot of people who can make a lot of money doing stuff online.

Michael Sartain (01:24:31):

And then there's a lot of people who just buy a bunch of Instagram followers. There's a one guy, God, oh, I wish I could show it to you. He goes, I'm one of the richest guys in the world. And like all of his jewelry is fake. Everything. This guy does is completely fake and he keeps talking about how rich he is. And this is a, this is an example of narcissistic personality disorder. And you start to see one of the great, one of the great or bad things about social media is that you can clearly see the psychopath and the narcissist much more clear now because of the way they use social media. And so I find it to be like a pretty massive advantage. People will tell you what they are very quickly. You know, I always, I always tell people, none of this is about me.

Michael Sartain (01:25:03):

I'm always trying to serve other people. I never, I don't even introduce myself in my fucking podcast anymore. Like I, it's never about me. It's always about the guests. I always, because I see so many people that are just like scam artists and like all the thing is everything is just self-aggrandizing nonsense. And I, and I really, really try to go away from that. However, I will tell you that, like when we go back to eyeballs, when people were watching, Tom broke off, right. And, and, and Dan rather that's gone. There's no more of that anymore. No, all, not some of those eyeballs, all of those eyeballs are now watching reels and TikTok, all of them. That's it. Even, even grandma, she's watching cat videos on YouTube like that. All of yeah. Rights. True. All of it, all of it has moved.

Michael Sartain (01:25:47):

Whenever somebody approaches me about cable TV stations or print advertising, or bill billboards are still fine or magazines. I'm always like, no, I'm sorry, what we call traditional media. None of that works. The only thing that really still works is radio. But radio only works because it's now being converted into podcast and streaming. That's the only reason why radio still works without the rest of it is just like even news. Like nobody watches the news anymore. Nobody watches Shannon sharp and skip bailiff anymore. They watch clips of Shannon sharp and skip bailiff on Facebook. That's all they watch. So we we're just in a, we're just in a very different time. I don't know if you guys have seen the condensed version of games on fucking now that's all I watch. I watch games in like 25 minutes. It's really incredible. Like, people just don't have attention spans for anything.

Speaker 1 (01:26:29):

<Laugh> right, right. What were we talking about?

Speaker 2 (01:26:32):

We're gonna

Michael Sartain (01:26:33):

<Laugh> exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:26:35):


Speaker 1 (01:26:35):

It's a great assessment. Yeah.

Michael Sartain (01:26:37):

Yeah. We're just out. I mean, just influence. Yeah. You guys ever have any questions or want me to reach out to anybody for you? I, I definitely could. I would love to. I'm gonna ask BZ if you come on, that would be the craziest thing ever. <Laugh> if you had. Cause he's, he's very, very, very pro police departments. You know, he was in the Navy, very controversial individual. You guys that'd be awesome. You guys want 10,000 subscribers in one day. That would be a great way to get him. That'd

Speaker 1 (01:26:58):

Awesome. Get you up, Chris. There you.

Speaker 2 (01:27:00):


Michael Sartain (01:27:00):

Awesome. Hey guys, when you, when you post this, let me know, and I'm gonna have my team make like 20 clips outta this.

Speaker 2 (01:27:04):

Awesome. That's

Speaker 1 (01:27:06):

Great, man. Really appreciate your, your time

Speaker 2 (01:27:07):

Man. Appreciate. And then we appreciate your time and thanks for that. And then we're gonna definitely have you back on and then I will be in touch with you via email for some other ideas I have for sure. I appreciate it. And then everybody, please go where you get your podcast, download, subscribe to Michaels on our podcast. We really don't try to spread the word trying to make this world a better place with people. So they have the, the, the right knowledge and the right answers. Thanks guys. For sure.

Speaker 1 (01:27:30):

Appreciate it. Thank you. See ya. Take care.